Fear and Loathing in Newcastle

[kneeshooter]

I'm positively fuming, as I suspected I might be. I'm listening to a presentation, actually - let's call it a scare story - from CEOP. The presenter is telling me, rather badly, that looking at pr0n will make me a paedophile.

I am not claiming that it's not a serious issue and that real harm is done to children around to world because of child pr0n, but I resent being piss-poor attempts to intimidate and scare me.

Now I shall attempt to say something sensible in the Q&A.

My starting list is:

"How much do you spend on education as compared to detection/prosecution?"
"Do you believe that the problem can be solved?"
"How much evidence is there of translation from online into the offline world?"

More suggestions welcome.

Comments

[furzepig.livejournal.com]

"Do you think fear is a viable tool to getting your message across?"
"Is the current climate of hysteria at the mere mention of paedophilia a hindrance in discussing any of these issues rationally and objectively?"

Of course - by objecting to his methods and criticising him, the hysterical reaction is that you are obviously on the side of the offenders (see: identity card/privacy debates, terrorism debates, etc). Which, quite clearly, you aren't - but such is the world we live in. I'm reminded of the superb Reith Lectures on the 'climate of fear'. I really must listen to them again.

[prosperine.livejournal.com]

"Do you think fear is a viable tool to getting your message across?" - actually thats a really good point, an anomous study by mind recently proved that many people who would get treatment for a wide variety of issues were scared of the fall out and consequence... is he just expecting possible paedophiles to but their hands up? or are we just going to assume anyone with p0rn is one and that every one who has a pulse is looking at p0rn?

[skinfitz.livejournal.com]

Does that mean that not looking at pr0n, or looking at 'vanilla' pr0n can 'cure' paedophiles?

Didn't they try this in the past trying to 'cure' homosexuality?

[prosperine.livejournal.com]

it does rather raise the question of whether paedophilla is an inert genetic condition or a learnt sexual practise. At which point does a person with peadolphilic attraction become a peadophile? Are they proposing to 'cure' everyone with paedophillic leanings be they acted on or not? also where does that leave the manga medium (i dont know the sub groups off by heart)?

[skinfitz.livejournal.com]

I recall studies of brain injuries causing paedophilia; I also recall reading articles about 'growths the size of golfballs' being removed from the brains of paeodphiles.

[prosperine.livejournal.com]

oohh.. citations?

there was a great debate about this on one of my pych boards recently.. the whole 'cure' homosexuality cases were raised.. as were the learnt behaviour stuff for bdsm.. i find it facinating.

[skinfitz.livejournal.com]

Trying to find some; one would think Google would be able to find this sort of thing easily.

[ayrton-nix.livejournal.com]

Try Google Scholar using 'paedophilia brain injury'

[prosperine.livejournal.com]

cool, thank you.

[skinfitz.livejournal.com]

Aha - found it - this was actually the thing I was looking for (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2943-brain-tumour-causes-uncontrollable-paedophilia.html).

[prosperine.livejournal.com]

thanks!

[prosperine.livejournal.com]

seems that was a one off slightly.. in that he 'got' peadophilla as a result but before that had been 'normal'...

although there is an frontal lobe thing going on in the other articles - ect springs to .. perhaps we can cure them all damnit!!!... and what about those who are able to function and not act out their impulses? After all if the number of child porn links and pre pubescent (that actually arent at all but really 21 yr olds in st trinian uniforms ) sites are an indicator there must be 1000 of them...are we going to 'cure' them as well of something im sure they view as ok and safe?...a functioning peadophile?

[ayrton-nix.livejournal.com]

will make me a paedophile

is this along the same lines as 'occasional use of recreational drugs will turn you into a crack fiend who mugs people and beats up old ladies to feed your habit'?

[ayrton-nix.livejournal.com]

I'll just clarify by pointing out i thought you were talking about all pr0n, not just child related, which will hopefully make my comment a little more understandable!

[skinfitz.livejournal.com]

Don't forget Prince Harry smokes dope therefore he will be a hardened drug addict later in life.

[ayrton-nix.livejournal.com]

Ha. Not sure he'd ever need to resort to mugging to feed his habit though!

Actually....

[harrytc.livejournal.com]

Cannabis _did_ turn me into a raving drug fiend.

I only started smoking when 21, and it was joints after work in the restaurant. Giving up hash was easy, I just kinda went off it a while ago.

But giving up nicotine has deffeated me several times.

Re: Actually....

[ayrton-nix.livejournal.com]

Not sure there have been many instances of people being mugged for a couple of quid or a packet of baccy by a sweating, panicky nicotine addict ... although I could be wrong!

There seem to have been a lot more studies lately into addiction being partially related to a genetic disposition.

[kissmeforlonger.livejournal.com]

Surely people look at child pr0n because they're already interested in it?

[skinfitz.livejournal.com]

...actually there is one glaring error in this presumption. Considering that everyone looks at pr0n, then that means that everyone is a paedophile?

Ask him if he's ever looked at pr0n. Then ask him if he's ever been tested for paedophilia.

[ebb.livejournal.com]

"Could you please give me a definative on what you refer to as p0rn? For instance, is it simply suggestive imagery regardless of what is or isn't actually 'on show' as it were or are you specifically referring to graphic images and what therefore is classed as graphic? Where is the line drawn over what is p0rn and what is not?"

"Surely things such as page 3 girls and the plethora of mens lifestyle magazines such as loaded need to be removed from the publics grasp, given their soft p0rn content?"

"Is it the image itself which causes such reactions or is merely thinking about the image and imaging such things (aka fantasies) enough, in your view?"

"Do you feel that removing access to p0rn would actually decrease or increase the number of instances of paedaphillic activities? Can I refer you to prohibition in 20s America whereby 'for the good of the people' access to alcohol cited a huge rise in criminal activites?"

[sixtine.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't suggest saying anything but does looking at Playboy turn you into a rapist? I loathe the climate of fear being generated and the right wing morality that is pressing people to nod in submission instead of raising their liberal views.

[westernind.livejournal.com]

Although gven the inexorable onward march of Nutz and Zoo, I don't think the supposed right-wing morality is getting very far in this country.

[carabel.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't agree with that. They aren't so much going for the 'no skin shown' stance that they used to clammour behind so well.. it's more a 'anything kinky, strange or not quite normal' that they seem to be crusading against now, i think the 'moral' right-wing has given up on one fight to take up their battle eslwhere..

[nyarbaggytep.livejournal.com]

I'd agree, I think they have just changed focus.